Coursers (spoilers)

[363rdChemicalCompany]

I have not spoken to H2-22.

But I do remember conversations with 3rd gen Synths and over hearing Synths speaking normally like normal people when amongst each other.

While I respect fraquars opinion I must respectfully disagree.

I feel there is a lot of overlap between synthts and people.

This does not mean I am a railroad follower ,or dont see thru Dima's  sanctimonous drivel, but neither am I a hardcore BoS guy that wants to kill them all.

[exlandia]

Prometheus

David: If you created me, who created you?  You will die and I will not...

Ex Machina

Nathan: One day the AIs are going to look back on us the same way we look at fossil skeletons on the plains of Africa. An upright ape living in dust with crude language and tools, all set for extinction.

It's interesting to chat with ChatGPT about Ex Machina...

Blade Runner 2049

The film reveals that Deckard was able to conceive a child with Rachael, and this was possible because she was an experimental prototype (designated Nexus-7), the first and only attempt to design a replicant model capable of procreation.

[NeinGaming]

Quote

You will die and I will not...

Toasters can't die because they didn't live in the first place

Immortal cells exist(ed?), but it just doesn't lead to an interesting *whole*. Life isn't about one individual going on forever at the expense of anyone else being born.That's just narcissism and lack of empathy. An inability to take joy in the fact that life goes on and will go on adventures even without us.

But apart from there being no "AI" and LLM just averaging something that statistically reads like whatever was fed into it, and then producing from that something that creates engagement, happily agreeing with mutually exclusive positions all day long -- let's say there was something there, which there isn't: Do birds stop to sing because humans can make "better music", do they stop to fly because we have planes? No. They die because we turn everything into a shopping mall, not because we're "better than them". So that framing of life being this "struggle for dominance" with the winner taking all betrays something -- not a truth, but an agenda, a defect, and you should always ask  "who told you that" and follow that chain.

Edited May 9 by NeinGaming

[South8028]

From the point of view of correct interpretation, 3rd generation synths are not AI. They are cloned humans. 2nd and 1st generation synths are AI. The Institute, calling 3rd generation synths machines, roughly speaking, is using the wrong terms.In the same way, slave societies at the beginning of the Western colonial campaign considered black slaves to be animals and even wrote scientific papers in all seriousness to support their point of view. Now we look at these slave owners as if they were crazy."bad"/"good" experience of interaction between a human and a 3rd generation synth = human-human relationships × cognitive distortions intentionally introduced by the "slave owner" (Institute).

[Karna5]

The latest generation synths in Fallout 4 are more like Robert Heinlein's "Friday" or Joel Shepherd's "Cassandra Kresnov" series. They're definitely robots, but borderline cyborgs and definitely super soldier level anatomy. I agree there is biological material used in the Fallout 4 late generation synths, but they're needle-and-vat injected biology.

Here's a screen shot from my November 10, 2020 film titled "Human" in the Nexus Mods Supporter section Image Share (which I can't link here). But I took a snapshot from the film to show what I mean about how those synths are made (and they later get fed to a vat before they comee out looking fully human).

I also have a March 11, 2022 film titled "Now - A Film" in the Nexus Mods Supporter image share, and it also has in-game footage of how those synths are made.

Either way, I am of the school which believes it's not the biology but the intellect which makes someone a person. A human whose brain dies is no longer a person even if their biology is alive, and a machine who is self aware and intelligent is a person. There's a novel called "Machine Man' by Max Barry. I listened to the audio book a few years ago and found it delightful. It's about an engineer who decides it would be more efficient if he replaced his own body with a machine. The engineer is not wrong, some day.

 

 

[subaverage]

Unfortunately Bethesda stays very much on the surface of something that could have been very interesting to go deeper. But as it is all the Synths are artificial entitys with some kind of programming and a synth component inside. It is hard to say whether they are self aware in the sense we are. They do not grow up, they don't have the years we have to develop a personality. And for me the question always was why they don't run away. Are they mentally conditioned or programmed? On the other hand there is Acadia. Are these synths the results of a faulty programming or real persons? Sometimes I wish Bethesda would have created the story of FO4 more or less only around the institute. That could have been very interesting. I remember the fantastic film "A.I. - Artificial Intelligence" and have still goosebumps thinking of it. Can synths/ artificial beings dream?

Edited Saturday at 10:09 AM by subaverage

[South8028]

19 hours ago, Karna5 said:

The latest generation synths in Fallout 4 are more like Robert Heinlein's "Friday" or Joel Shepherd's "Cassandra Kresnov" series. They're definitely robots, but borderline cyborgs and definitely super soldier level anatomy. I agree there is biological material used in the Fallout 4 late generation synths, but they're needle-and-vat injected biology.

Here's a screen shot from my November 10, 2020 film titled "Human" in the Nexus Mods Supporter section Image Share (which I can't link here). But I took a snapshot from the film to show what I mean about how those synths are made (and they later get fed to a vat before they comee out looking fully human).

I also have a March 11, 2022 film titled "Now - A Film" in the Nexus Mods Supporter image share, and it also has in-game footage of how those synths are made.

Either way, I am of the school which believes it's not the biology but the intellect which makes someone a person. A human whose brain dies is no longer a person even if their biology is alive, and a machine who is self aware and intelligent is a person. There's a novel called "Machine Man' by Max Barry. I listened to the audio book a few years ago and found it delightful. It's about an engineer who decides it would be more efficient if he replaced his own body with a machine. The engineer is not wrong, some day.

 

 

Guys, you are talking nonsense. If a person is grown, for example, in an artificial womb, or printed on a bioprinter (like in Mickey 17), he will still remain a human. He is a human agent (has human DNA/RNA) and has human physiology. 3rd generation synths are ordinary people, only with edited DNA (example - CRISPR). A 3rd generation synth would be considered a machine if it had a non-biological brain. For example, instead of a brain, an AGI is connected to the nervous system and the biological body is a hardware platform, an advanced manipulator. But for 3rd generation synths, this is not the case. This is a biological artificially made human. An advanced version of artificial insemination.The scientific name for this concept is clone. Clones are not robots.

Edited Saturday at 12:34 PM by South8028

[Karna5]

49 minutes ago, South8028 said:

Guys, you are talking nonsense

Clearly you're playing a different game than me.

[subaverage]

In my eyes they are no clones. A clone would be a 100% copy. Gen-3 synths might have human dna as a base, but they are modified in several ways and conditioned to serve the institute. And i would ask myself why the institute would make copies of something they want to replace? This is of course only my personal opinion and the game itself stays too vague for me for a clear answer.

Edited Saturday at 01:24 PM by subaverage

[South8028]

55 minutes ago, Karna5 said:

Clearly you're playing a different game than me.

The difference is not in the game, but in the interpretation. You can ask the AI whether the 3rd generation synths are AI or whether they are people. The answer is unambiguous. The 3rd generation synths are artificially made people. It is not the mechanism of their production that plays a role, but the fact that they have a human organism, a human brain, and are completely identical to human biology. The only difference is special DNA markers (analogous to the CRISPR program)